The Garage by Sonatus

Today in The Garage,

recording live from the COVESA
all member meeting in Berlin,

Germany, we have Steve
Crumb from COVESA.

Let's go!

Welcome to The Garage.

I'm John Heinlein, chief
marketing officer from Sonatus.

We're recording live at the
COVESA all member meeting in

Berlin, Germany.

And my guest today is the
executive director of COVESA,

Steve Crumb. Steve,
welcome to The Garage.

Thank you. Glad to be here.

You know, Sonatus has been
a longtime member of COVESA,

and we've known each
other for a long time.

I'm excited that we were
able to record here.

So by the way,

thank you for hosting us and excited
to have you on the podcast as well.

Absolutely. My pleasure. Yeah.

So what start by telling
us about you personally,

and then we'll get
into COVESA as well.

Well, I've been the executive director
of COVESA for since its inception,

when it was the GENIVI
Alliance sixteen years ago.

I helped start it, and I've been
the, executive director, ever since.

And, it's been a great ride.

It's been a privilege to
serve the automotive industry,

over those sixteen years and
to see an organization like

COVESA, you know,

grow and prosper and and
really impact the automotive industry.

That's great. Tell us about
your background a little bit.

Yeah.

Well, I started out in in computer
science like,

most people my age that
were interested in something new.

And and, I jumped into a a number
of different programming jobs in

the early days, big mainframes,
you know, back then.

And and, eventually, I
had the privilege of of,

going to work for a friend
of mine at the University of

Illinois in the
supercomputer center,

and that got me at kind of
the bleeding edge of of the

Internet.

I didn't invent the Internet,

but I was kind of there
when it was being invented.

Yeah.

And, that allowed me to,

to to move around not
only in academic circles,

but also in corporate circles.

Ended up, working at Motorola
for a number of years.

Yeah. And you have to tell
us a fun fact about you.

Well, the fun fact is
related to Motorola,

and it does date me quite a lot,

because I was the person that,

installed the very
first Internet based,

email server for
Motorola Corporation.

So that that really dates me.

A little bit, but that's that
is a fun that is a fun fact.

And my fun fact –

I always try to have a fun
fact back to our guest –

My fun fact is when I was at
Stanford, in getting my Ph.D.

at Stanford, my office mates were two
guys named Jerry Yang and Dave Filo,

who were the founders of Yahoo.

Okay.

So there was a period of time
when I had the root password to

the Yahoo machine.

And so I thought that
maybe that was a fun fact.

That is a fun fact.

That is a fun fact.

But, anyway, had had I
gone with those guys,

we would be retired on my boat
and having wine right now,

but I didn't do that.

So thank you for joining us.

So now tell us about
COVESA a little bit more,

about the mission of COVESA and,

kind of who the
members are and so on.

The mission of COVESA
is very simple.

We're we're all about
accelerating the value of of

connected vehicles today
and and in the future.

We do that in a number of ways.

We built a a global collaborative
community.

We're we're we do
everything in the open.

We've strongly believe and
and have a had a fifteen year

history of open collaboration,

open source licensing of
all of our, deliverables.

We feel like that is the
way to stimulate innovation,

to push technologies out
into the industry, to impact,

things like regulatory issues
and and things that are

happening in in Europe,

such as the the EU
data act and so forth.

And so COVESA is
is decidedly open.

It's it's a it's a community of
of great members like Sonatus

and and others
who come together.

And and, first of all, think
about business challenges.

We do not create technologies just
for the sake of creating technology.

Whenever we charter a new group
or a new project, we always say,

what is the business challenge
that we're trying to solve?

And then we launch the
technology project after that.

And and and most
often, we do solve it.

And so COVESA is all about, business
and technology, hand in hand,

solving challenges for the
connected vehicle ecosystem.

Yeah.

We've had some incredible sessions
here at the member meeting,

both business and technical
kind of running in parallel.

Some great discussions.
We've talked about AI.

We've talked about data.

We've talked about connected
services, many other things.

One of the things that is
so important to Sonatus and,

one of the key
initiatives you're

working on is the vehicle
signal specification.

I wonder if you can kind of
introduce that to us and say

what problem you're
trying to solve.

Sure. Yeah.

Vehicle signal specification
is solving a very big business

problem, and that is the,

that every OEM in the world has
a different way of describing

their vehicle data in their
vehicle and even in the cloud.

And even some OEMs across
that are multi brand OEMs,

they even describe vehicle data
differently brand by brand.

So what that does is it
just introduces a level of

complexity, a level of cost,

a need for translation layers to
get the data into a usable

form that they can
build insights around,

develop new features, and and
and connected services around.

So what vehicle signal
specification is, very simply,

it's a common language.

It's a way of
describing consistently

vehicle data such
as engine speed,

in a consistent way that can
be deployed across any adopting

OEM, across any adopting brand,

and even in the fleet context to
be able to use as a way of

normalizing data flowing from
multiple OEMs and multiple

vehicle types, commercial
vehicles, fleet vehicles,

two wheelers, anything.

The heterogeneity is
such a problem, and,

you know, we see it firsthand.

Even with within a single
OEM, you can have differences,

and so there's a real
value in creating that.

We've adopted VSS. We've been
using it for a while now.

And right now, at the
expo and this year,

we've been showing off a number
of AI applications as well.

That benefit from the ability
to, describe, for example,

signals of interest.

In natural language and using
VSS as an intermediary language

to allow you to take that
common inquiry common query and

use it across
different vehicles. Its

very powerful.

Yeah. No. I think so.

And and it's it's funny
because, you know,

we might get into adoption in
the adoption question here in a

bit, but it's rare that I I
do not get a phone call each

week from a new organization
in the in the ecosystem.

And as I begin to explore
what they're about,

what they're doing with
their products and services,

they say, yeah.

We've we've been using
VSS for a long time.

And so there's all of
these, you know Hidden.

Hidden adapters out
there, you know,

ranging from telematics
service providers to, you know,

even silicon providers.

I went into a a private
demonstration of a very large

and well known silicon provider,

at at the CES show earlier this
year, and they were they said,

"Oh, you're COVESA. We love
VSS." And so it's like, okay.

If we let's keep doing
what we're doing.

So, yeah, so on adoption,

what what's your sense
of the adoption level,

and what are the next
opportunities you see?

I I think the the
the opportunities,

are as as our board likes to
likes to say or some of the

OEMs on our board like to say,

there's there's the producers
of data and there's the

consumers of data.

The consumers of
data love VSS Yeah.

Because they all they have to
do is talk one language. Right?

The producers of the data
would like to get there,

but it's a challenge because
they have pretty big anchors of

legacy information.

We've always described our
our vehicle data this way.

Right.

And and it's actually overhead
to instill a new way of or a

new language of describing that
vehicle data even though if

they think midterm, long term,

it's gonna save them money over
time because it does things

like ease development cost
lower development costs.

They do not have to they can
go out and they can get a new

developer off the market,

and that developer does not
have to understand everything

about the vehicle.

They just need to understand
the data abstraction

of how they they you
can you can hit on,

signals like like like vehicle,

speed or or braking or
all sorts of things like that.

So it just simplifies things.

And the design of it is
really is really intuitive.

I think having it hierarchical
in terms of the kinds of

vehicle subsystems is there.

Mhmm.

And I think it's also you know,

one might fear that that kind
of thing is constraining,

but the reality is it's
designed in an way that OEMs

still have freedom of action,

to use use things common
where it's common,

but also use things special
for them when they need to.

And I I hope that that'll
help, ease adoption as well.

Oh, I completely agree.

And and the interesting
pickup that we're getting,

is from the heavy duty
truck OEMs who are facing,

especially the European ones,

are facing a antiquated fleet
management standard of that

describes their data in their their
heavy duty trucks and in their buses.

And they're needing to to to
take a quantum leap forward

Yeah. In the evolution of that.

They've they're looking
seriously at at using VSS as

that quantum leap to bring
their data management into the

into this into the century.

Yeah.

I mean, VSS is not broadly applied
into heavy heavy vehicles to date,

but we're seeing a lot of,
interest in that as well,

and I think there's
a huge opportunity.

Yeah. Huge opportunity for sure.

What are some other initiatives
that COVESA is working on that

you're you're focusing on?

Well, I mentioned, commercial
vehicle and fleet management.

There's a lot of pull from
fleet organizations who have

to, at the end of the day,

pay to get that vehicle data
in all these different formats and

make it into something
that's useful to them.

And so instead of doing something in
a proprietary way, they're saying,

let's open let's let's adopt
an open way of doing this.

And so they they see the
attractiveness of VSS, for sure.

And and the the
commercial and and fleet,

management expert group is is
working with those fleet managers.

They're working with the heavy
duty, and commercial vehicle,

OEMs, and they're saying, look.

Let's let's pave a
way for the future.

It may be painful in the short
run, but let's let's get there.

And so that's another
significant initiative.

How can we maximize the
potential of VSS in the

commercial vehicle and
fleet management space?

Another main activity that
we're doing isn't so much data

related, although there is
a relationship to data,

and and that is the Android
Automotive AOSP automotive

AOSP, app framework
expert group.

And there it's a
very simple mission.

If I'm a Spotify and I
want to write an application,

that can be,

be deployed in any OEM
without having to rewrite it.

Right.

Today, I can't do that.

Right.

Today, I can I can put it in the
Android store for those who are

adopting Android,

but that's only available for
or for OEMs who are adopting

Google Automotive Services,

which there are more and more
OEMs who are not doing that?

And now those OEMs have to
get Spotify to write that same

application many different ways.

So what that group is trying to do is
let's get rid of the fragmentation.

Let's make it simple for
app developers to produce really

quality apps Right.

That that works safely in an
automotive context. Right.

I mean, you say it's
kind of a cousin of data.

It's not directly data, but
it's this portability aspect,

once again, of how do
we do better reuse.

It's really important.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And and the the data component
is important as well because

Android makes available their
their vehicle properties as as

sort of their data model.

Right?

We're in the process of
mapping data properties to VSS.

Right.

And so,

if we do that successfully,
then, we can use the same,

applications and the same APIs
that hit on VSS for Android

applications as well.

That's great.

The all member meeting is
there's tons of people here,

and you have events
all around the world.

What's next for COVESA? What
are you focusing on coming up?

What are you focusing
on? Well, yeah.

I mean, we're we're
actually in the in the

midst of planning to do a
all member meeting in Asia.

We've had a lot of pull, but
we've never done that before.

Well, we've done it when
we were in we're Genevieve,

but not since we have have
rework rescoped into into

COVESA.

We're excited that Honda just
recently joined joined our

board of directors.

Nissan joined as a member.

We're getting some some nibbles
from other large OEMs in in

Japan and and suppliers.

And, also, Hyundai Motor had has been
a a long standing, member of ours.

And so we feel like it's,

it it's time to to
consider going and having a presence

there, engage the
community there.

So that's kind of
a new thing for us,

and we're excited about that.

We don't have the date yet, but,

that that's coming down the pike

And we know that VSS is a great
tool and a great approach,

but we're also actively
seeking input from the OEMs

for gaps that they see in VSS
that need to be bridged or

need to be overcome
in order to position,

VSS as an adoptable,

model for production vehicles.

And so we're working very,

very hard with OEMs
to gather that input.

We had a great,

gap document from Ford that
we're working through and other

OEMs that we're we're trying
to to bring in that that useful

information to make VSS even more a
valuable offering in the marketplace.

That's fantastic.

To find more about COVESA,

your website is covesa.global

That's right. So it's
a little confusing.

So make sure you go
to COVESA dot global.

You can find out more.

There's specifications
online, tons of information,

and the many, many, meetings,

throughout the year and regionally
and in all member meeting.

Steve, thank you for joining us.

Again, my pleasure. Thank
you for having me here.

If you like what you're
seeing on the garage,

please like and subscribe to
see more episodes like this.

We want to thank COVESA for
letting us film at their event,

and we look forward to seeing
you in another episode of The

Garage very soon.